224 Valkyrie Forum

224 Valkyrie AR Platform => 224 Valkyrie Reloading and Ammunition => Topic started by: highside on July 14, 2018, 04:35:21 PM

Title: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on July 14, 2018, 04:35:21 PM
Does anyone have these that are factory loaded? I need the OAL.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: kindabitey on July 14, 2018, 04:42:53 PM
Just got some in yesterday. I'll measure when I get to the shop tomorrow and let you know.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on July 14, 2018, 04:58:43 PM
Thanks. I have some projectiles on order. Wanted to get a factory baseline oal before playing with it. Seems Midsouth is the only ones to carry just the bullets.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: kindabitey on July 15, 2018, 02:31:30 PM
COAL of the factory Hornady 88 Eld-m is 2.25
CBTO is 1.694
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on July 15, 2018, 03:21:29 PM
Thanks. Gives me an excellent starting point.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Azureoval on July 15, 2018, 05:20:54 PM
Just loaded up some Today @ 2.325. Hopefully I can shoot them soon.

(https://s6.postimg.cc/wuxc1z3pt/88_ELD_2.325.jpg)
EDIT: posted the pic wrong . oh well.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on July 18, 2018, 09:20:29 PM
I'm doing some tonight. Thinking of 2.25 to 2.29.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on July 21, 2018, 04:56:47 PM
Range visit went better than I thought it was going to go. Forgot a few things, like my bipod, bags and such. So I used what the range had. Wood blocks.  :)

Bullets were 88 ELD M and 62gr SS109. Range is at 100 yards, no idea of temp, mostly sunny slight breeze.


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/highside101/IMG_1037_zpsddo42pl5.jpg)

Load 27.5 PP 2000MR OAL 2.27

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/highside101/IMG_1039_zps8uoubxf5.jpg)


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/highside101/IMG_1040_zpsh8te85fe.jpg)

Load 26.5 2000MR OAL 2.27

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/highside101/IMG_1038_zpslg8yhbjh.jpg)

62gr SS109 Load 30.1 2000MR 

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/highside101/IMG_1036_zpsry8pyirc.jpg)

Just looking for a plinking round





Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Freddyp on July 21, 2018, 06:52:02 PM
I too tried the 88 ELD's this morning.  Ran them through a Rem 700 with a 25" varmint contour 1-7 twist McGowen barrel. I chambered it with a PTG match Valkyrie bolt-gun match reamer, .050 free bore. The 88's shot a .34 group at 100 yards.  Once I shot them at 500 and 800, things fell apart. I could not keep them on an 18x24 steel plate.  I also tried the Hornady factory load and it too had the same problem.  Just for reference, I shot the Federal 90gr MatchKings and no problems. At 500 they stayed inside 1.5" with little effort.  It seems the Hornady 88 is just a little too long for a 1-7 twist. This is confirmed by the Berger website that indicates the stability is marginal. Running the Sierra 90 through the same program indicates that it is very stable. So for now, the Hornady's are getting set aside and I'm sticking with the Sierra's.  As far as I can tell, the Hornady's are going to need a 6.7 twist or 6.5 barrel to shoot at extended ranges. Here is the load info:

Hornady 88gr ELD
Aliant 2000MR  25.5gr
CCI 41
Starline brass
Col 2.290  .060 off the lands 
Vel 2720
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on July 21, 2018, 07:16:14 PM
Iíll be trying them out to 500 next weekend. They seem to work better for me than the 90SMK. Mine seems to love the 88s, was on paper right off the bat.

Now our loads are a bit different. I'm loading mine to 27.5gr of 2000MR with no signs of case damage, was going to go up from there. And it's coming out of a 20 inch barrel not 25.

I'll check next week, or maybe tomorrow. It's a long drive.

Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Alaska_guy on July 22, 2018, 12:31:27 AM
Those 62gr seem to be grouping really well.  Curious to see more load development from those 88gr.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on July 22, 2018, 01:31:23 AM
Those 62gr seem to be grouping really well.  Curious to see more load development from those 88gr.

Will work on that tomorrow, may have to drive out to Sterling and do some longer range test. Looks good so far. Yea, I got the 62 gr SS109s cheap so I figured they may just work for low cost shooting.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Alaska_guy on July 22, 2018, 01:33:56 AM
Wow, all the way to sterling?  Birchwood has 300yards...  nice weekend for a drive though.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on July 22, 2018, 01:40:13 AM
I have all day, It's only a couple hours drive time and they have 1000 yards and berms at 600 and 800. We'll see.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: brantfredrickson on July 22, 2018, 11:09:07 AM
I'm thinking starting with the 88eld-m's for a rifle I want to build. Ahead of buying the components, I'd like to build the rifle in Quick Load to get an estimate of performance.  But Quick Load doesn't have Starline brass or the 88eld-m in its database. For the 88eld-m I would need to put in a bullet length, boat-tail small diameter, and boat-tail length.. If someone has these values would you share them with me and/or the forum. I realize that bullets vary especially lot to lot and understand that these values would be estimates.

For the Starline brass I have seen a grains H20 total capacity estimate of 30.83. If another has a different estimate I would average them.

My intent is use a overall cartridge length of 2.295 and let Quick Load calcuate the seating depth.

In addition I understand the boat-tail small diameter and boat-tail length are difficult to measure so it okay if you just provide a length. Quickload gives for the 80 grain Amax a boat-tail diameter of .176 and a boat-tail taper length of .180. I would use those in absense of actual estimates.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on July 24, 2018, 12:04:13 PM
I didnít take the long drive. I ended up going to a friends property. This at about 200 yards. Load was 28.1 gr 2000MR Hornady 88ELD M oal was at 2.28. This was 2 15 round mags shot back to back. All same load.

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/highside101/IMG_1043_zpsxp33yifs.jpg)
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Alaska_guy on July 25, 2018, 12:51:04 AM
Looks like those 88's are going to be the ticket.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on July 25, 2018, 01:37:46 AM
I had a couple of flyers earlier in the day but it was from an unrelated issue. Loose scope mount.  :o Once tight everything else did as well. The big holes are from the 458, which I was surprised I even hit the target from there.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Freddyp on July 25, 2018, 11:45:53 PM
An update from my earlier post. I shot a few more rounds of the Hornady ammo this morning. Tried them at 400 yds on steel, with the McGowen 1-7. I grouped five of them in a 2Ē group. The air temperature today was 96* instead of 82* on my previous test. I rechecked the stability numbers again on the Berger site, taking into account the higher temp. Berger indicated that the rise in air temp was enough to move the bullet into a stable flight. Hopefully the heat will subside in the next week or two so i can try them again at a lower air temp and see how they group
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Freddyp on August 18, 2018, 01:48:45 PM
Update on the 88 ELD's in a 1-7 twist barrel. Today the morning temperature was 78* and the air was still for a short time. I was able to try them at 800 yards with my previous load of 26.0gr of Aliant 2000MR. They shot great, grouping at .6 moa. I also tried the Sierra 90Mk and those grouped at .4 moa. I was only able to shoot one group of each before the wind an mirage made it easy to throw a shot. I'm very happy to see that a 1-7 twist barrel pushing the 88 and 90gr at 2700 fps will stabilize the projectile and group well at longer ranges. 
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on August 18, 2018, 01:54:30 PM
Very good info. Thanks for the update,
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Vartarg on August 18, 2018, 03:31:14 PM
I didnít take the long drive. I ended up going to a friends property. This at about 200 yards. Load was 28.1 gr 2000MR Hornady 88ELD M oal was at 2.28. This was 2 15 round mags shot back to back. All same load.

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e91/highside101/IMG_1043_zpsxp33yifs.jpg)

Good shooting...way better than MOC: Minute of Coyote!
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on August 18, 2018, 05:27:05 PM
I like that MOC.  :D
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: kindabitey on August 18, 2018, 07:13:23 PM
There was a gentleman shooting at a PRS club match today running a 20" Valk AR and factory Hornady 88 Eldm ammo. He cleaned the longest stage of 900, 950, 1000, and 1135. 2 hits on the first three and four on the 1135.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: towerofpower93 on August 19, 2018, 05:03:21 AM
There was a gentleman shooting at a PRS club match today running a 20" Valk AR and factory Hornady 88 Eldm ammo. He cleaned the longest stage of 900, 950, 1000, and 1135. 2 hits on the first three and four on the 1135.

Get any details on his barrel?
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: kindabitey on August 19, 2018, 09:49:09 AM
There was a gentleman shooting at a PRS club match today running a 20" Valk AR and factory Hornady 88 Eldm ammo. He cleaned the longest stage of 900, 950, 1000, and 1135. 2 hits on the first three and four on the 1135.

Get any details on his barrel?
20" Wilson Combat 6.5 twist. This is his 3rd barrel, with the 2 previous being 7 twist. He's not set up for reloading and couldn't get the other barrels and factory ammo to group under 2". Went to a 6.5, and the 88's are around 5/8" at 100.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Alaska_guy on August 23, 2018, 09:33:30 PM
Here are the factory 88ELD rounds.  Looks like the factory rounds have the primers crimped in place and you will need to chamfer or swage the brass in order to use it for reloading.

2.248 COAL
1.683 to Ogive

(https://s15.postimg.cc/lcbg0mi4b/IMG_1855.jpg)
(https://s15.postimg.cc/8kx9u4g23/IMG_1856.jpg)
(https://s15.postimg.cc/bf0f7kxnv/IMG_1858.jpg)
(https://s15.postimg.cc/ovxdqg09n/IMG_1859.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VuW5KNs.jpg")

Using my OAL guage with this bullet, it touches the lands of my PSA 20" barrel at 3.325 COAL.  If using the Ogive measurement with my .22 comparator I get 1.756.  That means the factory cartridge has a .073 jump to the lands.  I will be shooting half of these and pulling the other half and loading to 2.298, which gives 1.730 to the ogive when measuring.  That should put the bullet .26 thousands off the lands and I would assume increase accuracy.  Powder will not be changed, just seating depth.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Alaska_guy on August 23, 2018, 09:48:14 PM
Took one apart, looks to be 24.1 grains of powder...  Looks just like RL-15 to me, but I will let you guys be the judge.   8)

Whats in the brass pan came out of the cartridge, whats in the powder dispenser funnel is RL-15.  Looks like the same stuff to me.

Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: a12driver on August 28, 2018, 06:43:33 PM
I finally got to the range late last week but didn't have a chance to post the results until now.

Tested out loads for the 88 ELD's with PowerPro 2000 MR and Reloader 15 using Federal brass and CCI 400 primers. Both powders worked quite well, the best group with PP 2000 (24.4 GR) was 0.465", and 0.656" with RE15 (25.0 GR), both at 100 yards. Also the 25 Gr RE15 loads, five shots, averaged 2857 fps with a SD of 13.

Shot from a CMMG 24" barrel. Five to ten mph wind blowing from right to left.

I loaded in half grain increments, so the next outing I'll try to refine a bit more to find that sweet spot!
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Xaddo on August 28, 2018, 07:08:27 PM
Very nice! Glad to hear others having good results. Once I hit the combo of 88 gr ELDs and
Re-15 it all came together for me too. Please let us know how it's doing as you take it farther down range.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: S717-Valkyrie on August 28, 2018, 07:23:35 PM
@a12driver what OAL???
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: a12driver on August 29, 2018, 06:38:47 AM
I am loading the 88 ELD's to 2.280". Seems to be the max length my magazines will allow, maybe could go a few thousandths more. I have two 6.8 SPC mags, one is a Barrett and the other is an ASC. Both worked well at that length.

I did try five rounds at 2.346" feeding them into the chamber singly. According to my crude measurements, that length should be .005" off the lands in my barrel. But that group was between 1.5" and 1.75" at 100 yards.

Once I find that best load, I will move out to 500 yards. Don't have access to 1000 yards yet. There is a club about 20 minutes from me that has a 1000 yard range, but you have to be a member to use it, and the membership list is currently full. Going to try to get on the waiting list.

When I completed my load testing I had 10 rounds of the RE15 25.0 grains left. I loaded up the mag, set the scope to the setting on my Strelok Pro app for 300 yards, and hit a 12" steel plate at 300 yards all ten rounds. And that was not precision aiming, just placing the crosshair somewhere on the plate and squeezing the trigger. So that load and the PowerPro 2000 MR look pretty promising for longer distances.



Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: a12driver on August 29, 2018, 06:54:16 AM
Just another note: my Valkyrie build was done on a budget. I've been using a bolt borrowed from my Barrett REC-7 upper, had to add the gas rings since the REC-7 is a gas piston setup. I ordered an Advanced Combat bolt from Brownells; it should be arriving in the next few days.

I don't think it will change my load results, but I am certainly not an AR expert. Anyone have any thoughts?

Also, since my last range trip, I lapped the receiver. So I guess I'll find out if I see any changes in groups or point of impact the next time at the range.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Hammerhead on September 03, 2018, 09:01:16 AM
I also tried some of the 88's this week with Power Pro2000 and Win760.
The Power Pro had a good sized node starting at .960 at 22.7grns, going to .900 at 23.7grns. with the smallest group of .620 at 23.2 grns. The Win760 I tested from 26.8 up to 28.3grns. Got a nice group of .520 at 26.8 and .525 at 27.8 grns. All seated at 2.295.
Wilson Combat 20" 1:6.5 long freebore. I too will be lapping my receiver this week.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: PA Valkyrie on September 04, 2018, 12:10:53 AM
I also tried some of the 88's this week with Power Pro2000 and Win760.
The Power Pro had a good sized node starting at .960 at 22.7grns, going to .900 at 23.7grns. with the smallest group of .620 at 23.2 grns.

Hammerhead, Your PP2000-MR charges seem pretty low. Alliant lists a max charge of 27.1 gr with the Sierra 90 MK, for a velocity of 2763 fps. They have no data yet for the Hdy 88 gr. I've done some preliminary testing with the 88's, charge weights 26.1-26.6-27.1-27.6 gr. None of the groups were worth writing home about. What was the total spread of your test ladder? Min load - max load? Any chance of getting velocity data?

Thanks, Dave
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Alaska_guy on September 04, 2018, 01:39:11 PM
Has anyone here with access to a 300 yard range and a chronograph performed an audette ladder or 10 round ladder with the 88gr ELD?  I am curious at what velocity you are seeing the chronograph showing velocity nodes/pressure nodes that are close together.

IE: If your using PP-2000MR and 26.6 grain 26.8 grain and 27 grain all are within 1-2fps.  I know this can be done without a chronograph, but I find that when velocity flattens or stays the same its a better indicator of a node rather than the group size I happen to shoot that day.

I am not sure how many of you here geek out that far or not.  It's nice to know when your climbing in velocity and then note where a few different charges seem to be about the same in velocity.  Usually these are the accuracy nodes.  I still need to get a chronograph so I have been doing my reloading tests using the OCW method.

I am curious because I am wondering how high up in fps we are able to get these things to go while keeping the velocity close together between charge weights.  This should indicate how fast we can realistically push these and stay within accuracy before things start to fall apart.

I will eventually be doing these tests with the 80gr ELD's once my chronograph gets here.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Hammerhead on September 04, 2018, 06:37:48 PM
PA Valkyrie, Hi Dave.
The data that I used was from the low end of Sierra's data for the 90 Smk's. To be brutally honest I wasn't expecting good results
so I didn't set the chrony up! I started with the min load of 22.2 grns.  It was the biggest group at 2.25".
22.7 took it down to .960. 23.2 produced a .620 and concluded with a .900 group at 23.7 grns. Thinking there is a shooter
somewhere around 23.2 to 23.5.
I have tested the upper end of the scale with RE-15 and to say the groups were anything less than WILD would be an understatement. Grenades group better. I'm lapping my receiver early this weekend and if I have time I'll be retesting these loads again and WILL set up the chrony and be able to report some useful info.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Hammerhead on September 15, 2018, 02:15:42 PM
Back in from the range. Testing the upper end of the scale of Power pro 2000MR.
25.3 = 2619fps .619moa
25.7 = 2640fps .893moa
26.0 = 2644fps .711moa
26.3 = 2674fps .510moa
I also ran some 760 at similar charge weights and have nothing to report there. Lapping the receiver
did not produce any noticeable gains in accuracy but it really runs like butter.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Alaska_guy on September 15, 2018, 03:33:10 PM
Not much to complain about in an AR platform.  Half MOA or there abouts is all I normally shoot for.  If I get better than its just icing on the cake.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Hammerhead on September 15, 2018, 04:42:52 PM
Rodger that. I have a couple or three great loads now for the Valkyrie near the top of the possible velocity in the heavies. That was the main goal for me. Still wishing for some heavy hunting bullets. I dream of a 95grain coyote hammer.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Grant on September 16, 2018, 10:20:27 AM
Anyone having any luck reloading the 88s with temp insensitive powders (Varget, At-Comp, etc.) I live in ND where the temps are extreme to say the least. Thanks
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Hammerhead on September 16, 2018, 04:48:20 PM
Sorry to report my experiments with Varget and H4350 were terrible.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: highside on September 16, 2018, 06:11:11 PM
Mine as well. Being in Alaska, like some others here, we have days with massive temp changes. Waiting for really cold weather to set in, then do cold weather testing.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: Loomis1911 on September 17, 2018, 12:27:53 PM
Hornady has Load data for the 88 ELD.

https://press.hornady.com/assets/site/hornady/files/load-data/224-valkyrie-88gr-eld-match.pdf

Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: PA Valkyrie on September 22, 2018, 11:57:33 AM
Back in from the range. Testing the upper end of the scale of Power pro 2000MR.
25.3 = 2619fps .619moa
25.7 = 2640fps .893moa
26.0 = 2644fps .711moa
26.3 = 2674fps .510moa
I also ran some 760 at similar charge weights and have nothing to report there. Lapping the receiver
did not produce any noticeable gains in accuracy but it really runs like butter.

Very encouraging! I'm trying again after my initial disappointment. Paying more attention to precision, including bullet runout. I just loaded this test ladder for the 88 with PP2000MR last night: 24.3, 25.3, 26.4, 26.9. Hornady reports velocities of 2500, 2600, 2700, 2750 for these loads.

I loaded this set to 2.275" COAL / 1.710" CBTO, which is about an 0.02" jump in my 24"/1:6.7 barrel.

Will test next week, hoping for the best.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: PA Valkyrie on October 03, 2018, 09:52:32 PM
Well, I had a death in the family  :'( and was off line for a while, but I finally got to test the HDY 88gr  ELD-M / Alliant PP200-MR combo today. I used the top four recommended loads in Hornady's published data: 24.3 gr, 25.3gr, 26.4gr & 26.9gr. The 25.3 gr load was the clear winner in my rifle. It put 4 rounds into 0.315" @ 100 yards, but I had the inevitable flyer with the last shot that expanded the final group to 1.185". I swear the last shot jitters on a really good group is pretty much the same disease as deer fever. Lol! This load should give 2600fps in my rifle. Will chrono it at a later date.

The 24.3gr load was all over the place. 26.4gr was even worse, but with slight ejector marks. 26.9gr tightened up a bit, but worse ejector marks and some primer flattening.

Hornady 88gr ELD-Match
Starline case
Federal Gold Medal 205M SR primer
1.710" CBTO / 2.275" COAL / 0.02" Jump

Frankenparts .224 Valkyrie, 24" 1:6.7 heavy barrel, Sanders upper/BCG, rifle+2 gas, JP H2 buffer, Timney Targa 2-stage, Magpul plastic, Acme Machine 6-24X50 scope in Burris PEPR mount
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: RDY2313 on October 03, 2018, 10:14:11 PM
I also have a sanders upper. But the 88s in mine touch at 2.325 so I loaded 2.290 to see how they do. Havenít got to try them yet I may get out tomorrow
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: PA Valkyrie on October 06, 2018, 01:14:22 PM
I also have a sanders upper. But the 88s in mine touch at 2.325 so I loaded 2.290 to see how they do. Havenít got to try them yet I may get out tomorrow

Interesting. What are you using to measure chamber depth? When I first loaded for this rifle I measured the throat to be a bit longer. Don't remember exactly what it was. When I loaded ammo to jump .02" using that measurement, they went into the lands and they wouldn't go into battery. Had to pry the bolt open, and sure enough, marks on the bullets showed they were into the lands. I switched to a Hornady OAL gauge, then I measured the throat with the 88's at 2.295" (avg.). Sanders doesn't give out the maker name of their barrels, so there's no way to know if we are looking at two different barrel manufacturers here, or what. Like I said, very interesting.
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: RDY2313 on October 10, 2018, 12:42:01 PM
Had some time this morning.  88 ELD @2.280 with 24Ē sanders armory upper velocity 3lb trigger.  Seems to like the 88s better than the 80. Last pic is a little better visual 4 under the penny I knew I pulled the 3rd shot
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: RDY2313 on October 10, 2018, 12:44:45 PM
RL15 was running 2750
Title: Re: Hornady 88 ELD
Post by: RDY2313 on October 30, 2018, 09:49:51 PM
PA Valkyrie I used the hornady measuring tool