Author Topic: Hornady 88 ELD  (Read 3777 times)

Offline PA Valkyrie

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2018, 09:52:32 PM »
Well, I had a death in the family  :'( and was off line for a while, but I finally got to test the HDY 88gr  ELD-M / Alliant PP200-MR combo today. I used the top four recommended loads in Hornady's published data: 24.3 gr, 25.3gr, 26.4gr & 26.9gr. The 25.3 gr load was the clear winner in my rifle. It put 4 rounds into 0.315" @ 100 yards, but I had the inevitable flyer with the last shot that expanded the final group to 1.185". I swear the last shot jitters on a really good group is pretty much the same disease as deer fever. Lol! This load should give 2600fps in my rifle. Will chrono it at a later date.

The 24.3gr load was all over the place. 26.4gr was even worse, but with slight ejector marks. 26.9gr tightened up a bit, but worse ejector marks and some primer flattening.

Hornady 88gr ELD-Match
Starline case
Federal Gold Medal 205M SR primer
1.710" CBTO / 2.275" COAL / 0.02" Jump

Frankenparts .224 Valkyrie, 24" 1:6.7 heavy barrel, Sanders upper/BCG, rifle+2 gas, JP H2 buffer, Timney Targa 2-stage, Magpul plastic, Acme Machine 6-24X50 scope in Burris PEPR mount
Si vis pacem, para bellum

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and you don't have one, you'll probably never need one again."

Offline RDY2313

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2018, 10:14:11 PM »
I also have a sanders upper. But the 88s in mine touch at 2.325 so I loaded 2.290 to see how they do. Havenít got to try them yet I may get out tomorrow

Offline PA Valkyrie

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #47 on: October 06, 2018, 01:14:22 PM »
I also have a sanders upper. But the 88s in mine touch at 2.325 so I loaded 2.290 to see how they do. Havenít got to try them yet I may get out tomorrow

Interesting. What are you using to measure chamber depth? When I first loaded for this rifle I measured the throat to be a bit longer. Don't remember exactly what it was. When I loaded ammo to jump .02" using that measurement, they went into the lands and they wouldn't go into battery. Had to pry the bolt open, and sure enough, marks on the bullets showed they were into the lands. I switched to a Hornady OAL gauge, then I measured the throat with the 88's at 2.295" (avg.). Sanders doesn't give out the maker name of their barrels, so there's no way to know if we are looking at two different barrel manufacturers here, or what. Like I said, very interesting.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and you don't have one, you'll probably never need one again."

Offline RDY2313

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2018, 12:42:01 PM »
Had some time this morning.  88 ELD @2.280 with 24Ē sanders armory upper velocity 3lb trigger.  Seems to like the 88s better than the 80. Last pic is a little better visual 4 under the penny I knew I pulled the 3rd shot
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 03:06:33 PM by RDY2313 »

Offline RDY2313

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2018, 12:44:45 PM »
RL15 was running 2750

Offline RDY2313

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2018, 09:49:51 PM »
PA Valkyrie I used the hornady measuring tool

Offline gump1376

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2018, 08:44:36 PM »
I think I found a load my rifle likes. 

Hornady 88gr ELD-M
Fed. Premium Brass (new)
Fed. Primer
H-Varget 23.7gr (This is over the printed max, but my rifle shows no signs of pressure, so be warned!)
COAL = 2.260in

at 100 yards I printed a 4 shot group (one shot was me flinching so I didn't count it) of 0.770 in.  Total elevation was 0.508 in. with windage of 0.532 in.  See pic for evidence.  I may increase to a COAL = 2.270 to see if I can shrink this even more (may increase to 23.8gr as I'll keep velocity similar). 

Velocity for this round was ~2588 ft./sec. measured with a Chrony located about 15 feet from the muzzle.  Temperature was 50 F with a density altitude of ~6800 (I can't remember exactly and don't have my data here in front of me.).  Once it get warmer such as ~95 F here, I may need to adjust my load to keep pressure down and velocity constant.  Since I'm at 5990 ft elevation I'll be supersonic past 1300 yards. 

*edited to add velocity data*

Forgot to add how they worked out to 940 yards.  Data from Strelok Pro was dead on at 400, 500, 560, 795, and 940.  My first three rounds at 400 were dead on for elevation.  If it wasn't for the damn wind gusts I would have hit it.  So this round seems like it'll work for my PRS steel matches at my range. 

*edited to add range trip data*
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 08:58:14 PM by gump1376 »

Offline gump1376

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2018, 08:50:56 PM »
Here's a 7 shot group with Hornady Match ammo.  0.787 in. at 100 yards isn't too shabby.  My Chrony wasn't working this day for some reason (I need to go to the magnetospeed). 

*edited to correct a number*
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 08:59:23 PM by gump1376 »

Offline Shadow knows

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2018, 11:34:18 PM »
Anyone tried RL16 yet?

Offline Freddyp

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2018, 11:09:04 AM »
Anyone tried RL16 yet?

You can't get enough of it in the case to get decent velocity, with 88's.

Offline binazone

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2018, 06:48:15 AM »
Quote

Using my OAL guage with this bullet, it touches the lands of my PSA 20" barrel at 3.325 COAL.  If using the Ogive measurement with my .22 comparator I get 1.756.  That means the factory cartridge has a .073 jump to the lands.  I will be shooting half of these and pulling the other half and loading to 2.298, which gives 1.730 to the ogive when measuring.  That should put the bullet .26 thousands off the lands and I would assume increase accuracy.  Powder will not be changed, just seating depth.

I've been curious about the topic of "jump" and "freebore" and now that I have my 224V modified case I'm able to put some numbers to it.
What I'm using:
PSA 20", 1:7 - 75 ELDMs seated out to 2.295" @ 2900 fps and quite accurate
Using the modified case, I measured the 75s touch the lands at 2.309" COAL.
Likewise, the 88ELDMs I just got touch the lands at 2.328".

Using 2.300" (mag length with my ASC mags) as reference, am I correct in saying that the 75s would "jump" only .009" and the 88s (not tested yet)would "jump" a bit further at .028"?
I hope the math is that simple.

The other question that comes to mind is do these numbers indicate whether or not the PSA barrel is to SAAMI spec or not? The barrel is quite accurate, so no issues here whether it is or not, just curious since PSA won't answer that question.



Offline Flygrimm

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2018, 02:21:14 PM »
So I just did some measuring with my Hornady Comparator using 3 bullets, the Hornady 88 ELD-M, the Sierra 90 SMK and the Sierra 95 SMK.  Test Barrel is my unfired Bison Armory 24" 1-6.5 twist Stainless Fluted.  Figures are the average of 5 measurements rounded to the nearest thousandth.

Hornady 88 ELD-M

Max Length: 2.356" 
Cartridge Base to Ogive: 1.808"
COAL 2.26":  .096 Jump
COAL 2.30":  .056 Jump

Sierra 90 SMK

Max Length:  2.318"
Cartridge Base to Ogive:  1.836"
COAL 2.26": .058 Jump
COAL 2.30":  .018 Jump

Sierra 95 SMK

Max Length:  2.369"
Cartridge Base to Ogive:  1.802"
COAL 2.26":  .109 Jump
COAL 2.30":  .069 Jump

The Sierra 95 SMK has more of a VLD profile hence the ability to get it farther into the chamber throat before contacting the lands.  This is also the reason the jump to the lands is far greater than the other two bullets.

 Shown for comparison left to right:  M193 55 gn FMJBT, M855 62gn FMJBT steel tip, 90 gn SMK, 88 gn Hornady ELD-M, 90 gn SMK, 95 gn SMK.  You can see the difference in the ogive of the two heavy Sierras.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 02:25:10 PM by Flygrimm »

Offline CaptJim

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2018, 03:11:45 PM »
in to see how things go.

Offline Deude-Mann

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2018, 09:21:32 PM »
So I have some initial results to report.

Some details on the rifle:
AR15 Performance barrel, 22" 1:6.5 twist rate, non-SAAMI freebore
Gibbz side-charging upper
15" floating handguard
Rifle +2 gas tube with adjustable gas block
Fired from a bench with a Harris front bipod and a "rabbit-ears" leather rear bag.

The ammo:
I handloaded using charge increments in order to determine which load would group the tightest. The details are:
Hornady ELD 88gr bullets
Starline Brass, new (never fired)
Alliant RE17 powder: four different loads in 0.5gr increments, with the highest being 28.0 gr.

This is a very compressed load and really needs some vibrating to pack down the powder before seating the bullet. The powder is well into the neck. It also lightly craters CCI 400 primers so I have since switched to CCI 450 primers. I am seating the bullets to be very long, well beyond SAAMI length, which is possible due to a window cutout in the magazine. My COAL is about 2.345" which results in about a 0.015-0.020" jump (measured) to the lands in my rifle. It cycles from the magazine just fine. The lower receiver magazine well is standard MIL-SPEC. 

Cutting to the chase, the best 5-shot group at 100 yards was 0.61" (measured c-to-c) with a lot of vertical stringing. It shows potential. This was with the 27.0 gr load, and is the target in the upper right. Velocities were around 2750 fps IIRC. The 28.0gr load was over 2800 fps. 



I returned to the range a week later with more ammo loaded in finer increments around the 27.0gr load. However the follow-up testing was not as promising. The group size expanded considerably even though there were not any major changes other than reloading the once-fired brass (rather than firing new brass), and the air temperature was lower. Everything else was the same.

Since velocities from the previous trip (shown in the OP) were within 1 fps of this trip, with a smaller SD, I do not think the larger grouping was due to a burn rate change due to powder temperature sensitivity. So I am guessing it was either increased neck tension due to not annealing the case necks, or *gasp* the shooter (me). I plan to try again soon with Hodgdon H4350 and annealed necks/shoulders.

Someone mentioned Alliant RE16 powder (faster than RE17). I have some and may try that soon. I also have some Vhitavuori N540. I seriously want to make this chambering work so I will be at it for awhile. 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 09:39:57 PM by Deude-Mann »

Offline a12driver

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Re: Hornady 88 ELD
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2018, 07:12:20 AM »
I have had good success with Hodgdon H4895 (24.0 gr) with the Hornady 80 grain ELD. One half MOA groups with velocities of 2841 fps. Shot with CMMG 24" 1 in 7 twist barrel.

I've loaded up some 88 ELD's with the same powder but I haven't had time to get to the range. I'll post the results here after the next trip to the range.