Author Topic: 75gr ELD loads.  (Read 9557 times)

Offline highside

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2018, 12:31:54 AM »
With my 60gr bullets I have been loading them with H335 at 26gr. Tried CFE223 at 29 but I was getting better numbers with H335.
Did you know there are rings around Uranus?

18 XRAY Embrace the  suck.

Offline MaxVelocity

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2018, 01:30:28 AM »
Found this over on the hide with RL15 and 75 ELD.

Checked velocity today, my good shooting 25gr RL-15 under 75 ELD (just got some in since I'm about out of A-max) is turning in 2771fps, I also shot 3 at 25.8 which is where the next node may be and it was running 2910fps. While I didnt see pressure signs, a 140fps jump over .8 of a grain has me second guessing going above 25gr.

Almost 3000fps at 25.8gr.  Be careful and watch for pressure signs.  I imagine that 26.2 grain load is pushing 3000fps.

Offline justDee

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2018, 12:07:00 PM »
I am new to reloading, just started in January, so forgive my ignorance.  I want to ask a question in regards to the shot groupings posted above by Alaska_guy.  It would appear to me that the best grouping is the first group at the slowest speed?  I know for my AR chambered in 223 Wylde, if I shoot factory 55 grain FMJ military ammo, it's coming out of the barrel at 3100 FPS and they shoot a under MOA at 100yards. With that in mind, when I started to reload some 62 grain Fusion bullets, I was thinking, "I need to be at or near that 3100 FPS range,' but once I started loading and testing, starting with the lowest to highest powder charges, I found my sweet spot was actually down around 2800 FPS with those 62 grains bullets.  I kept wanting to be faster, but the bullets were telling me slower.  I am using the Hogdon CFE223 powder and I tried some loads with Varget as well, it preferred the CFE223.  Those are the only two powders I have tried so far.  As a side note, I was originally using CCI Small rifle primers, 400 I think, and the last batch of 50 rounds that I loaded, all they had in stock were the MAG small rifle, #450.  The groups tightened up a bit at 100.  My barrel for those rounds is a 16" SS, 1 in 7, chambered in 223 Wylde.
I haven't purchased dies yet for the 224, still shooting the American Eagle 75 grn TMJ and keeping the brass, so I am hoping to learn from you guys for when I do get the dies and begin loading my own 224 rounds.  My 224 is a PSA SS barrel, 1 in 7, 20" in length.  My gun club has rifle ranges out to 400 yards, so that is the distance I will be shooting and creating loads for.
As far as bullets for reloading in the 224, I was thinking the 88 grain Hornady ELD??
I guess my question is:  How concerned should I be with the speed while working up a load?  Or, in other words, at what point does the chrono come into play?  Just shoot the different powder charges, make your decision on the groups, and worry about speed later?  I know I was all caught up in the speed when I first started shooting my own loads.  Just curious on you guys thoughts/experiences.

thanks,  dee
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 12:14:46 PM by justDee »

Offline a12driver

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2018, 12:26:09 PM »
I've been reloading for close to 40 years. I started reloading to save money and get better accuracy. I am not a "precision shooting" reloader but I've always strived for accuracy with any caliber I have reloaded staying within the bounds of the data in reloading manuals. Only after I have an accurate round do I bring out the chronograph if at all. As long as the round performs as it should for hunting or target practice, I have never been concerned about the velocity, except when working up a subsonic load for the 300 Whisper. Of course I'm not an expert, but that has been my philosophy. That being said, I am going a bit "out of the box" with the Valkyrie in search of that perfect load!

Offline 224ValkyrieTeam

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2018, 12:36:20 PM »
I look for a few things.

1. Select a single powder, start 1-2 grains below max charge listed and work up loads to see where the accuracy nodes are.
2. See how fast I can get the projectile to go before I start seeing pressure signs.
3. Chrono loads right where pressure signs start so I have a good idea of the potential overall speed of that particular powder.  Also chrono the accuracy nodes.

These three things usually help me find which powder is the fastest and which accuracy nodes/speeds my particular barrel likes for that weight projectile.

I can then switch powders and load closer to the accuracy node I found using a chrono that I noted in my first powder to help reduce reloading time.

IE: Say my gun likes 2800, 2900 and 2950.  That tells me I can look online or in a book for the charge weights for other powders that may be in that same speed.  This has helped me reduce wasting powder to find what my barrel may like in another powder.

This is just what has worked for me.  I have tried many other methods over the years, this is just what seems to work for me now.

-Bristol
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 12:40:53 PM by 224ValkyrieTeam »

Offline Alaska_guy

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2018, 12:46:49 PM »
Good info.  I don't own a chronograph.   :(  So I still take the long route, I basically go 1-2 grains below what is posted as max in a book and work up .3 increments to find what the gun likes.  If there is no posted data I take a guess by case fill with powder and go from there and work up.  I usually try and keep the tightest group while retaining some speed.  IE: 25grains grouped really well.  However I believe 25.9 will group well if I do my part.  It could have been my shooting impatience or another factor that played into my group size.  Since 26.2 looks like it will show promise as well I believe there might be a decent node in the 25.9-26.2 gr area I need to explore.  This looks to give me around 2900-3000fps and should be right around the velocity of the factory 75grain TMJ bullets so that would make sense.  I am loading 26.2-27gr more to see where pressure signs start to occur.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 08:14:28 PM by Alaska_guy »

Offline Xaddo

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2018, 12:49:34 PM »
To add to the above post there will be accuracy nodes at different velocities. You have found one at around 2800 fps. There may be another one a little faster. If you can get to the faster accuracy node without building too much pressure you can shoot flatter with less wind drift. I always go for accuracy over speed but I also want to have that accuracy at the highest possible speed! Make sure you familiarize yourself with how to recognize signs of high pressure before going near or past max listed loads. That being said, I would think the 62 gr pills should be moving a little faster than 2800 fps.
(Actually to add to the post above the post above as the one above came in while I was typing!)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 12:52:17 PM by Xaddo »

Offline Alaska_guy

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2018, 01:05:05 PM »
I also decided to purchase On Target PC Software today.  If that top flyer wasn't there I believe that group would have been sub MOA pretty easy.


Offline justDee

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2018, 03:36:02 PM »
Wow, all good info and I'll have to re-read it several times and take some notes on it all for it to make sense to me.  The phrase "accuracy nodes" is a new one for me, never heard that before.  And I'll be checking into that software you mentioned.  For Christmas, I'm hoping Santa brings me one of those Bullseye target cameras.  Anybody ever use one or have experience with one?  I wish it went to 400 yards, but the cheaper model only goes to 300 yards.  Double the price and it gets you to a 1000, I believe?

Offline Alaska_guy

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2018, 04:53:26 PM »
Well, I made it out to the range today but the fog was pretty serious.  Seemed like the groups started to to tighten up the higher in charge weight that was in them, but nothing amazing yet.  I am still using a bare barrel with no muzzle device.  I am curious what the results show after I put on a device.  No signs of flattened primers or ejector swipes yet.  The last shot on the 27gr group was my fault.  It was the last shot and I totally pulled it.







Offline Alaska_guy

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2018, 07:52:37 PM »
Went back to the range and 27.2 started cratering the primers, 27.4 flattened them.  Groups seemed to shoot the same.  Decided to try a 300 yard plate and it was no problem.  No real great results yet with RL-15.  I think I will give 25 grains another shot.  I just feel I am leaving a lot of velocity on the table considering I didn't see any real pressure signs until 27 grains.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 11:49:53 AM by Alaska_guy »

Offline Alaska_guy

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2018, 02:48:35 PM »
Ok, went back out today using 25grains of RL-15 again.  I am sure this is the best I can shoot currently with my 4lb trigger and sandbags.  I am hoping to get a 3lb trigger and my bipod setup before the weekend so I can attempt it again.  Every other rifle I own has a 3lb or lighter trigger and I could feel myself jerking the trigger just a bit with each shot.  I am pretty positive 25.9 grains is going to produce the same group size.  I decided to use 4 shot groups as I always pull the 5th.



« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 02:50:44 PM by Alaska_guy »

Offline Alaska_guy

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2018, 11:02:39 PM »
Ok, last update with RL-15 and 75 ELD.  25 grains and 25.9 are the ticket.  Got my bipod installed and put on a gemtec flash hider and hit the range with both loads...  I was stacking bullets on my 12" plate at 100 yards with both the 25 grain and the 25.9.  I had to adjust my scope for the flash hider as it moved my POI down 6" and to the right 6" after installing it.

I took some shots at 300 yards and it seemed to do the job just fine!  I have to say I am really enjoying shooting this low recoiling round.

Offline Alaska_guy

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2018, 01:41:44 PM »
Went out and took a picture of the steel target.  As you can see, with the muzzle device on and the bipod I am shooting well under MOA at 100 yards.  Looking to sneak away this week to get out to 320 yards and see what groups look like now that I have my scope dialed in.


Offline binazone

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Re: 75gr ELD loads.
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2018, 07:43:56 AM »
Since I only use Hornady 75 ELDM, this looks like the best place to post my results.

I received my PSA 20" upper (SS, 1:7, adjustable gas block) about three weeks ago. I got it for the sole purpose of having a reliable, 1K capable AR15 gas gun loaded to mag length for PRS matches. Just couldn't get it done with my 18" or 20" 223 /556 loads.

Since then I've been testing a variety of powders: CFE223, H4350, 760, 748, H4895, Pro 2000MR, R17, R15 and ARCOMP. I've been high and low in charge weights with just about all of them, but I've developed four loads (two of which I've already tested with success at 1K) that I'll post here.

Components:

New or 1X Starline brass
75 ELDM seated to mag length or a bit less (2.255 -.258)
ACS 6.8 10-round mags
CCI Magnum small PISTOL primers (thought they were rifle primers, but they worked so well I decided to stay with them).
Magneto V3 used for all crono work

Loads tested out to 1K
25.1 Alliant Varmint - 2775 fps
28.7 H414 - 2825 fps
The above two loads, once corrected for elevation (up .5 mil) and windage (left 1.5 - 1.7) produced three consecutive hits each on the 1K steel - 18" x 30" with flashing strobe.

New loads
25 ARCOMP - 2900 fps - my zero is at 50 yards - three rounds - .250 hole edge to edge

27 R15 - 2910 fps - again, three rounds at 50 yards, .300 touching, center to center

I've not had any FTF cycling issues (other than adjusting the gas block for a particular load if needed) with the PSA / ACS mag combo.

I used Federal factory 75 grain TMJ for barrel break in and (re)zeroing. Not a 1K load, but very accurate and consistent at 2900 fps. It appears that Fed brass used for the load is trimmed to 1.6 so after firing once, trimming is required.
The new Starline was all trimmed to 1.590 so even after two or three firings, the resized case is still under 1.6 so I haven't had to trim anything yet.

In my case, I found that with the 75 ELDM, 2775 fps is the bottom line for a reliable supersonic load at 1K. In my part of the world, Density altitude numbers used are typically in the 1000 - 2500 ft range.

With all the loads I tried, it seemed the faster I tried to go, the "groups" would open up. It also was the case that I could load well above posted data (Sierra and Hodgon) without any pressure signs or just the start of them. To give one example, I loaded 28.7 of R17 almost to the top of the neck, seated the bullet without any crunch or resistance, crono'd at 2975 fps, with some ejector swipe, but was all over the place on paper. I did use this load at 1K, but after dialing up as before, I only managed 1 of three on target.

I plan to put the ARCOMP and R15 load on paper at 500 and 600 shortly. I'll let you know what they do.